Zimmerman, 28, appeared in court in a dark suit and gray tie, and, in a surprising move, took the stand. There, in a voice verging on meek, he apologized to the family of Trayvon Martin, the 17-year-old he admits he shot—but only, he says, in self-defense.
“I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son,” he said to the parents, who attended the hearing in the central Florida city of Sanford, where the shooting took place. “I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am, and I did not know if he was armed or not.”
As a student of language and semiotics, I would suggest that the latter part of Zimmerman's statement is particularly rich with meaning. Context is key to the analysis of language. Language also constructs meaning through unstated assumptions shared by speaker and audience; oftentimes a speaker--here being Zimmerman--can run into a crisis of communication when the listener does not share his unstated priors and worldview.
Zimmerman is part of a collective consciousness that views all black people as adults regardless of their age. Because African Americans, especially men, have no right to self-defense in their person against White authority (it is rarely mentioned that Trayvon Martin had every right to "stand his ground") all bets are off. Zimmerman is working through this logic as he basically suggests that if Martin were younger, then the presumption of being armed and dangerous may not have applied.
However, because common sense dictates that all black men are armed, at all times, and have the magical ability to transform harmless objects into guns or knives, Zimmerman was acting under a reasonable person's standard of behavior. Anyone approaching a black man would naturally assume that the latter was especially and uniquely capable of deadly force. Thus, Zimmerman's appeal to shared community norms is a basic one: anyone in his position would have reasonably and naturally assumed that a black teenager wearing a hooded sweatshirt in the rain and carrying a bag of candy is an imminent and deadly threat.
Zimmerman's statement of "apology" to Trayvon Martin's family is one of the most honest and pronounced distillations of the White Gaze and its debased view of black humanity which we as a country have witnessed in many years. If one ever wondered about the existential dilemma faced by black masculinity in American society, or was searching for an object lesson in how black folks are "niggerized," look no farther than George Zimmerman's "apology" for committing murder.
Zimmerman can assault plain clothes cops, batter his fiancée, ignore police directives, stalk innocent people, carry a weapon in violation of his vaunted "black watch" rules, and shoot unarmed people without doubt or worry. Moreover, it takes a national uproar to even have him properly investigated and eventually arrested on suspicion of having committed murder. Let a black man do the same and see what happens. It does not take a leap of faith, or radical act of imagination, to understand how divergent the outcome would be.
Ultimately, Zimmerman is a murderous clown. As such, and in keeping with the national tragedy and three ring circus that is the color line in America, Zimmerman will find martyrdom as he is a stand-in for every white conservative ever accused of racism or racial bias. During the days and weeks to come, the script will be flipped as he becomes the object of a cause celebre. In this grotesque play, George Zimmerman is the good man done wrong by the system. Trayvon Martin is simply collateral damage.
Those blacks end up dead, in jail, or lying in the morgue for days unclaimed anyway. So what is the measure of a black man's life, one that is doomed to failure, against the shining star and bright future of "good" men like George Zimmerman?
Those blacks end up dead, in jail, or lying in the morgue for days unclaimed anyway. So what is the measure of a black man's life, one that is doomed to failure, against the shining star and bright future of "good" men like George Zimmerman?
172 comments:
He might have been scared at some point, but now he knows he's probably gonna win this, "they" have nothing on him.
More than anything else, he's in PR mode, already building up what little fame he could muster.
How could one feel sorry when one thinks himself justified, and when his half-assed apology will come back biting him in the ass, he'll stop pretending that he cares.
At the end of the day, I don't really care about Zimmerman, I only want to know what really happened that fateful night.
What happened was your grilled-toothed, "NO_LIMIT_N****" decided to go ghetto on a law-abiding citizen. He rolled the dice and rolled wrong. Bad guy is now dead; good guy is wrongly accused, but will soon be acquitted.
"...cause [de] celèbre"? Hunh?
Trayvon wasn't lost but taken from the world by a murderer. But, boy does Zimmerman's dad have some pull and influence amongst other judges or what?
@J. That is all I want as well. Unfortunately, that will never happen.
@anon. Thanks for proving my point. Zimmerman a "good guy." Exactly.
@Steve. Thanks. I always get those two confused.
@Grung. Zimmerman's dad has some photos of folks in the police dept. doing some kinky stuff it seems.
the parents should apologize for spawning yet one more gutter ape to burden the decent people of amerika. trayvon the ape committed a violent assault and he got his black ass shot as he deserved. But being a criminal gutter ape automatically makes him a hero to blacks, who revere nothing else. That's why you people are called niggers, you love the low life,
zimmerman cannot possibly be acquitted because the niggers on the jury will vote guilty from minute one. They will also try to intimidate the other jurors, just like in the OJ case. Everybody knows that niggers are violent gutter apes with no morals.
We blacks are the most ignorant racist bigoted hypocritical people on earth. When are we going to stop blaming others and take a look in the mirror. We gotta ask ourselves, "why do pretty much every other race on earth hate us so much?" They hate us so much because we as a whole never wanna take personal responsibility. Its always someone else's or some other race's fault for our fuck ups. Martin Luther King would be ASHAMED of the black community if he were still around to see this. I am ashamed of my race as a whole for the way they act. Its pretty disheartening to know that the majority of the crimes in this country are committed by our minority race. Black on Black crime is higher than any other race. So why do we care so much about a single death when we are still killing each other left and right.
This is not a defense of Zimmerman in any way, but he was actually answering direct questions that Trayvon's mom asked him on the Today show (http://www.christianpost.com/news/trayvon-martins-mother-reveals-question-she-wants-to-ask-zimmerman-73120/). "I would ask him, did he know that [Trayvon] was a minor, that he was a teenager, that he did not have a weapon." Your post makes it sound as though he brought them up himself, without any prompting, which isn't the case.
@Anon. Schizophrenic today? You should get a set of ventriloquist dummies and sit outside in a park and then have them argue and fight with one another. Would be great entertainment. Got to love the obligatory Dr. King mention.
@Anon2. Assuming you are not the same schizo Anon1. Doesn't change the substance and logic of what he said, it could perhaps make it worse.
This comments section = QED
Thanks for proving this essay's point re: the motivations of Zimmerman apologists.
Excellent piece; tweeted and excerpted at pragmaticobotsunite.com
--gn
So chaunceydevega.
If I'm understanding you correctly. What you are saying is that Zimmerman, being half Latino, is part of the non-white white supremacy problem you mention so often.
That being half white automatically gives him access to much envied white supremacy rights which would have been denied him if he had been 100% Latino.
Maybe this explains how Obama was able to gain access to our highly treasured white supremacy rights.
Thank goodness that myself being largely American Indian that I had some white mixed in. Dodged the bullet of not having access to white supremacy rights there. Perhaps more blacks should check into their lineage and see if they can find some trace of white too so they can claim these rights for themselves.
If you can't see my ridicule of such a line of thought let me be more blunt. What a crock!
The reason so many modern whites think of blacks the way that they do is the result of the actions of many blacks themselves. They broadcast an image of violence in order to be feared.
These blacks don't realize that the image created doesn't inspire fear, but instead a backlash the entire black community has to deal with. Although, I doubt those who are involved in trying to create this image really care what the rest of the black community has to deal with.
Example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5MGJ87hPGw&feature=player_embedded
Well gee, sledge. How brilliant and novel a concept: it's okay for a disliked minority to be collectively punished, as that minority has simply brought it upon themselves. Gosh, no racist or antisemite has ever had a similar idea...
--gn
Anonymous said...
"Well gee, sledge. How brilliant and novel a concept: it's okay for a disliked minority to be collectively punished, as that minority has simply brought it upon themselves. Gosh, no racist or antisemite has ever had a similar idea..."
I never said it was OK. But I do say that to a large degree that is the way that it is. It is a problem the black community will have to deal with. Because it is not a problem that the white community, or any amount of Government funded programs, will be able to help them with.
And to the annon up above who I suspect is a white guy impersonating a black guy. I suspect you have black envy.
The only answer to which is to apply black face before proceeding through your day. Although, I would advise you while doing so to remain in a predominately white community. If you try that in a black community you will probably get your a@@ kicked followed closely by then being baker acted.
@sledge, I completely disagree. Negative stereotypes of African Americans have been present since slavery, and the pathological manner in which black lives are debased, as this article correctly notes, exists outside of the agency of black people.
Or to put it less pompously, racism and anti-black bigotry is now and always has been the problem of those who hold racist views.
To bring this conversation back on topic: George Zimmerman sat in front of the parents of the child who he murdered and then defamed, and issued a mealy-mouthed, self-serving, media-courting "sorry for your loss." George Zimmerman then lied to the mother and father of the child who he murdered ("I thought he was just a few years younger than me" despite having identified Trayvon as a teen on the 911 call). He was unwilling to admit to even a smidgeon of his misconduct, and captured those parents in the pathological morality play he's conducting in front of his credulous media audience. Just wrong.
--gn
Anon you hit directly upon the issue that will decide Zimmerman's guilt in this case.
Did Zimmerman "defame" Trayvon with untruths in his accusations of Trayvon's conduct after he lost sight of him?
If Zimmerman did he will be judged guilty of murder. If Zimmerman didn't he will be judged innocent of murder.
A jury hearing all of the facts that are not available to us will make that decision.
Zimmerman's story (or more accurately, stories, plural) is absolutely ludicrous and is being sold with copious amounts of racial stereotypes about black youths as presumed thugs. His "apology" is of a piece with that strategy of dog-whistling and justifying homicidal conduct by depicting the black community as depraved. That's the point, or at least, that's what I got from this piece.
--gn
Anon I understand what you are "saying". I understand what people issuing opinions on both sides of the argument are "saying".
I read opinion pieces on all kinds of subjects including this one. Just because someone, regardless of stature, writes it or says it doesn't mean it's true, or that I believe it, or that I agree with it.
In this case, in the end, it doesn't matter what they or I think. It will matter what a jury which has all of the facts presented to them think.
Every thing else, and I do mean everything, is just gossip and speculation. Some for profit, some to hear their mouths run.
For the record, I have no investment in whether Zimmerman is found guilty or not. I just want the jury to do whatever they think is right based on the facts. I'm sure that they will.
How those invested in this case, on one side or the other, without the luxury of all of the facts will react to the jury's decision is still up in the air.
I've about reached the point on this case where I don't care how people will react to whatever verdict is handed down. I have no control over how people on either side react.
Anonymous 10:33, 2:42, 2:45 - if you feel so strongly in your views atttach your name to it. Any punk can make a plethora of racial slurs hiding behind "anonymous," it takes a man of conviction to give a name to stand with the words.
So which are you?
Good piece.
Negrophobia created the events which lead to Trayvon's execution and Zimmerman's immunity right after the incident.
Politics not justice nor truth has lead to Zimmerman's indictment.
Black Americans have always labored under the reality of Negrophobia and of course we will continue to battle this derivative pathology of white supremacy..
Such is the nature of life for us in the place called America
Young master "no_limits_nigga" terminally discovered his limit at the wrong end of a gun.
Blacker than thou jiggaboos - who have made it their lives' work to justify and excuse any extent of bad behavior by reference to structural racism - are stuck with the intractable paradox of most mainstream black folks hating no_limits_niggas too...,
What is one to do when the central political issue facing the majority of black americans is the bad behavior of a subset of black americans, much as the central political issue facing whites in the run up to the civil war, and the run up to the civil rights act was the bad behavior of a subset of white americans?
@Cnu. "What is one to do when the central political issue facing the majority of black americans is the bad behavior of a subset of black americans, much as the central political issue facing whites in the run up to the civil war, and the run up to the civil rights act was the bad behavior of a subset of white americans?"
Mis-specified. This "subset" of white Americans was white society in mass, aided and abetted by a white supremacist local, federal, and state apparatus. White racism was the popular will of white democracy.
Never mind the moral high ground which black Americans have long had relative to Jim and Jane Crow and that the vast majority of white Americans have historically found material and psychic sustenance and life from the sick ether of white racism.
I think you are onto something. However, the analogy does not apply here.
What has become more and more evident as this sad saga has wound it's way from this murderer stalking Trayvon to his bond hearing, is that Zimmerman, like so many white men who have no real accomplishments in life, in reality inwardly view themselves as failures. Just like Anonymous and Cnu. In fact, most black men have no real sense of just how weak they really feel. Despite having the advantages and privileges of bieng white in America, most of them are only of average intelligence and unfortunately not athletic. Therefore, if you are white and your family is not rich by this point in American history you can just about give up thinking you will ever be. If you are a white man and your wife works and your combined income is less than $100,000 and you have no reason to think that either of you might lose your jobs, then you are a failure. Think how many such white men there are who fit under that scenario. All of those men know that but for their white privilege, they could never have competed with the freed slaves, who could outwork every group of men in America. That is what white men really feared, real competition. That's why the game has had to stay rigged.
Out of the Hell's fire and the anvil of slavery, black people survived with a revised Christianity, a death-grip physicality and real mystical swag. Who really wanted compete straight up with that. Black exceptionalism has came at the highest of prices. The thought of truly encouraged and motivated black people properly educated is a monster that has frightened, certainly the average and less than average white man, but those in control at the top as well.
Those of us who have been been blessed to have somehow managed to avoid the myriad pitfalls that are institutionally designed to trip us up and are exposed to a wide range of white folk know that most of them are not exceptional as their stations in life would seem to suggest.
Then you are able to understand that a lot of their hatred stems from more of a pathological insecurity that they feel themselves. The not exceptional whites really need to think we are somehow "less" than they are to feel better about themselves. Then many exceptional ones feel that they should be even farther ahead of you than they are, when they encounter an likewise exceptional black person, and they needlessly suffer inwardly.
@Razor :
tldr version: the "at least i'm not black" mentality.
@Razor
LOL! I never thought of it like that before. Thanks for opening my eyes. Yeah, who the hell wants to compete with that.
@Razor I'm pretty sure Cnu is Black.
@Cnu
I don't think Trayvon was some kind of angel (most teens are dicks, I was one fairly recently), but from what I've heard he'd done nothing to warrant a 911 call that evening. Whether Trayvon overpowered Zimmerman and spat some cheesy straight-from-a-comic book one-liners is neither here nor there. Were it not for Zimmerman's paranoia, he'd still be alive. Were it not for police nepotism, he'd have been arrested long ago and we never would have known about it.
That being said, to offer my opinion on your comment, I think that if the Jessie Jacksons and Al Sharptons of the world gave as much energy to creating and improving Black systems of opportunity and education, as they do chasing some dream of inclusion and acceptance they've (likely) already lost faith in, there'd be a lot fewer no_limits_etc. around. To put it succinctly: stable communities create stable citizens.
Here's the conclusion I'm at now: Anti-racism, noble as it is, puts the ball in the White court. They can ignore our words and half-ass progress, yet suffer no immediate consequences. Lets say we could support ourselves; we grow all the food, run all the schools, build all the houses and machines we need and then some. If Whites want to integrate with us that's fine, but if they still want nothing to do with us that's fine also because we wouldn't need them. What can White America give us that we can't give ourselves? What would we gain from their acceptance?
Yes, it would be nice if our fellow citizens cared enough to help stabilize our communities, if only to fulfill the loving utopia of our dreams, but they don't. Should we be surprised or shocked that after centuries of neglecting our livelihood that they would continue to neglect our livelihood? To them, Black-on-Black crime is a Black problem, but White-on-White crime would be an American problem. Is that necessarily a bad thing? If we're not Americans in their eyes, than we are not bound to America's fate if we choose not to be. Play our cards right and we could have sovereignty if it's in our best interest.
That's my extremely cynical take on it, but alas: we're 50 years behind schedule and my generation will have a lot on our plate.
@Sledge. I often disagree with you. But you have a flat affect and cold delivery to your insults which I admire. We could probably enjoy a few beers and provocative conversation together.
@Anon. I just with we could get ourselves together as our brothers and sisters did many years ago. Back during the bloody summers of the 19 teens and even during Reconstruction and the Civil Rights Movement we formed like Voltron and took care of business. Now, not so certain. Our Latino brothers have formed block watches and patrols to control their ign't classes out in Cali in many neighborhoods. We need to do the same.
@CDV. Too much faith in the electoral process, I think. We're taught to believe that voting is power, but it's not. Voting Democrat hasn't helped us, and voting Republican certainly wouldn't, not now anyway.
Maybe we don't understand how much power we have already, and how much more we could have if he simply reached out and grasped it. Maybe most of us still want America to live up to its "ideals", even though our freedom was never a part of the Founding Ideal. That's what I pick up from Cornel West anyway. Once we realize that America was Someone Else's Dream we'll organize again.
@CDV
I am hearing a lot of hatred stirred up lately over no limit types and pants sagging types and race chasing media figure types, and race chasing academic types. Mayhaps when this all blows over we can take some of this to the altar of James Brown. Gud Gawd' hit may.
Here's the conclusion I'm at now: Anti-racism, noble as it is, puts the ball in the White court. They can ignore our words and half-ass progress, yet suffer no immediate consequences. Lets say we could support ourselves; we grow all the food, run all the schools, build all the houses and machines we need and then some. If Whites want to integrate with us that's fine, but if they still want nothing to do with us that's fine also because we wouldn't need them. What can White America give us that we can't give ourselves? What would we gain from their acceptance?
Young Anonymous is truth!
Accept no muthaphukkin substitutes....,
we're 50 years behind schedule and my generation will have a lot on our plate.
Intellectually courageous statment of the year!
lol, CDV - see what you get for encouraging these frustrated bathroom attendant jiggaboos like rusty "razor"?
This blacker-than-thou "mystical warrior" is contented playing pretend and make-believe that he's an embodiment of High John the Conqueror - when in reality - I'd be willing to bet you he can't even competently push a gawddayyumed broom.
Out of the Hell's fire and the anvil of slavery, black people survived with a revised Christianity, a death-grip physicality and real mystical swag. Who really wanted compete straight up with that. Black exceptionalism has came at the highest of prices.
rotflmbao
straight.out.of.a.comic.book....,
As usual CNu is vomiting his tired tune of blaming Black recipents who are impacted by the pathology of white racism..CNu is like CD both Black intellectuals who are embrassed by the Black underclass..
Yet to-date CD nor CNu and the few other posters both white and Black here offer nothing to move the community forward but words, words, words,,
At some point one would think this site will evolve yet it remains a circular execerise.
Perhaps I expect to much from intellectuals, academic types, angry venture capitalists like Cnu, CD and others
Perhaps I should acknowledge at least they offer some insight to even though it is tiresome and dated..
To be continued..
lol, (Thrasher couldn't mask his bathroom attendant stench even if his life depended on it)
jiggaboos incapable of shittin and gettin off the pot cause they waitin for jeezus to come to the rescue!
I got some bad news for you - jeezus hates you shiftless, anonymous, worthless jiggaboos too...,
Chauncey, it is really amazing. I have noted that when the discussion in your posts descend from those lofty realms (which requires some modicum of intellectual curiousity to process), and settles instead in the midst of any currently popular color tinged conversation; that it is this time and only this time that the racialist anti-Negro haters make their way into your comment section? Please I beg you keep your discussions on a credible academic plane and spare us who enjoy your writing and the comments that they elicit the boring task of skipping over the intellectual barren bigoted bombast of this host of "color aroused" racists which tend to dominate your comments section.
Respective of George Zimmerman's "apology" made from the witness stand in court; the key words that Zimmerman unwittingly used
were, "I did not know if he (Trayvon Martin) was armed or not." IMO this statement is a direct admission by Zimmerman that he should not eligible for release under the self-defense provisions of the "stand your ground law". How could he be in fear for his life if he did not know if Trayvon was armed or not? I submit that Zimmerman had NO FEAR of Trayvon Martin and went after Trayvon and when he caught up with Trayvon attempted to physically attempted to secure him. This immediately initiated a scuffle as from Trayvon's persective he was being attacked by some stranger in the dark of night. At this time Trayvon was the one who was actually in fear for his life and most likely in desperation struck out at Zimmerman in an attempt to free himself, hitting Zimmerman in the nose, knocking him to the ground. When Zimmerman hit the ground he pulled out his pistol and shot Trayvon. I submit that at no time was Zimmerman in fear for his life and he simply shot Trayvon in retaliation for being knocked to the ground during the struggle which he ,George Zimmerman, provoked by his initial attack on Trayvon Martin. IMO the fearful cries for help actually came from Trayvon who was literally scared to death by the strange man chasing him down and attcking him. These cries for help and Zimmerman's own statement that he did not know if Trayvon was armed or not should make a strong case for the prosecution if they are so inclined to pursue it. Experts have already testified that the recorded cries for help were not uttered by Zimmerman...
Wouldn't it be sad to be mistaken for a nigger just cause your skin is black? White folks with guns don't know the difference. Some black folks with guns, especially the police, don't know the difference. Trayvon could have been me. Trayvon IS me.
Then pull your pants up, take your grill out your mouth, and be a more respectable negroe....,
@CNu
Are you nuts?
And on that tangential issue a la Chris Rock. The bullet holes in my house, the swing stolen off the porch, the deep tire track ruts across my front yard, the break ins, the shitty diapers thrown maliciously in my yard (one up in a tree! I still ain't figured out how they did that), flowers cut off my damn hydrangeas...
Nope.
I just don't identify in any manner, form, or fashion with stupid, ignorant, oxygen-thieving parasites who misbehave and exhibit cultural oppositionality at every conceivable turn.
I don't identify with non-producing parasitic preachers, lawyers, politicians, academics and other breath and britches nonsense peddlers who've misled three generations of poor black folks into a condition of unremediable niggerishness either.
I say, out with all the rascals, no sympathy, no quarter, no exceptions.
everything else is time-wasting conversation....,
Hard-working, education-valuing, thrifty, stably married, shiningly upright, clean and sober, deep-sacrificing, black americans, the ONLY americans who have upheld the constitutional ideals and aspirational standards that lying, trifling, racist others love to whoop their rotten gums about - have overcome faaaaar too much to be set back any further by the trifling no_limits scum in our midst.
"I just don't identify in any manner, form, or fashion with stupid, ignorant, oxygen-thieving parasites who misbehave and exhibit cultural oppositionality at every conceivable turn. "
Me either. But I'm not obsessed with them. And I don't think kids who, reprehensibly, dress like thugs should be killed. And so far I haven't heard that Trayvon was dressed like a thug. He was wearing a hoodie. I often wear a hoodie myself. You wanna shoot me too? Like I say, I have often been mistaken for a nigger.
@Parvenu. Some things are unavoidable. Thus, the pleasures and perils of digital democracy. I loved your point in Zimmerman's admission. It was hidden in plain sight. I hope the prosecutors are half as deft and sharp as you are. If so, Zimmerman will get the conviction he has more than earned.
this post is so on point. thank you for writing this so strong to the bone.
@nomad
then elevate your game so there's no possibility of confusion.
if you wore a big red nose and size 29 red shoes, would you be upset if everyday people thought you a clown?
if you wore a stetson and a belt buckle the size of a serving tray and some nacona ostrich skin boots, would you be upset if everyday people thought you a cowboy?
stop identifying with, sanctioning, aiding and abetting, and politically supporting a thanaturgic and oppositional cultural fork devised and mass marketed by Madison Ave. two decades ago as a memetic counter to politically conscious and positive hip-hop culture.
Thanks for confirming my suspicion, CNu. You are a nut.
lol,
a very high compliment indeed coming from a magical-thinking moron who believed in (and still likely believes in) flying saucers and little green men from outer space...,
your willingness to uncritically accept and own slop is precisely the psychological and cultural weakness that is at the root of black America's self-evident failure to thrive, and, the enormous and worthless body of narrative affecting to explain it away as "structural racism."
Respectable girls reacting to what Nomad's people have become....,
Their concluding remarks - ABSOLUTELY PRICELESS......,
CNu,
Sorry but unlike Thrasher who does not ever post under an alias I am like you, CD and others who hide behind the cloak of anonymous:-)
I will admit I did enjoy how Thrasher beasted you in here...Yoe u remind me of so many Black middle class privledged types who think they have some special insight on shit your arrogance is boring of course..Like CD you try to hard to distant yourself from iggnants who look just like you...
Parvenu,
More speculation enough already..There was nothing in Zimmerman's disciurse that worked against his interests..He played the moment the way the world operates now..He deposited just enough pc verbaige to convince potential jurors he was in fear of his life of course unlike Trayvon was is trapped in the uniform of Negrophobia no one listens to the words of a dead man..
Reality has now set in Zimmerman will be convicted of a crime based upon the politics of the moment nothing else matters in a post racial era..
chaunceydevega said...
"@Sledge. I often disagree with you. But you have a flat affect and cold delivery to your insults which I admire. We could probably enjoy a few beers and provocative conversation together."
Same here CD. We don't always agree, but I have to admit even when you are wrong you are very witty.
I think it would be very interesting to talk to you over beers. So much is lost in communication when you can't see someone's facial expressions and body language. Who knows, someday it could happen.
Concerning Razor's comments -
Although I poked fun at the extent he carried his argument and that it was had at the expense of others, whites. (Something I've seen whites bashed for a number of times in my short time here.)
I think the basis of what he said relates to the self esteem of black men and black folks in general. So I would say that many parts of his argument should be legitimately considered. Whether forged in the fires of slavery as he describes or not. A great many blacks have a strength within them that should be celebrated and used as an example for the rest of the race.
Concerning Anon 3:39 comments (Wish You Had A Name)
Although I don't believe in the balkanazation of the country and hope it never happens. Your words concerning self reliance and self built achievement for the black community reflect the strength in many black people that I mentioned above.
When yours becomes the predominate attitude among black folks and that vision starts taking shape. That, in my opinion, will be the day that those on the lower end of the black community that CNu refers to with the grills in their mouths and baggy pants, start seeing a new future instead of the one that's glorified for them now.
Continuing with the line of thought that Anon 3:39 got me on. How does that get started as it requires access to funding? Something that is very difficult through the traditional banking system at the current time and foreseeable future.
I'll just throw this out there. I've often marveled at the ability of new arrivals to the country to attain impressive degrees of success fairly quickly.
I'm speaking of Pakistanis, Jews, Indians and Orientals. (Although, the same can be said for various Secret Societies such as Masons and the like.)
These races (and Societies) tend to pool their funds to provide access to private loans given to achieve business plans.
As members of these races achieve success they consider it their duty and responsibility to contribute more heavily to this effort of providing funding for business and education to others of their race.
About a year ago I attended a Pakistani wedding. (Something to see I assure you.) I went outside to smoke and noticed an older and younger Pakistani man who were just walking around the outside of the building deep in discussion.
As they passed by me the third time I heard the older man say to the younger man that he would advance 7 hundred thousand for the younger man's venture.
I don't know what the venture was or what else took place because they were walking by and I went back inside. But I did find the way that they do these transactions very interesting.
If a similar type system could be set up in the black community it would probably be a big help in reaching some of the goals that the black community has longed for.
But I wonder if the black community has become, I guess you would say, too Americanized in the system of get what you can for yourself, while you can, to be able to ever come together for the betterment of of living conditions for the race as a whole.
Anyway, just throwing it out there as a possibility that could be discussed.
fuggedaboutit sledge...,
jiggaboo entertainers and athletes have been squandering vast riches for generations now with no end in sight, and NOT A SINGLE GOTTDAYYUM BLACK VENTURE CAPITAL OR INVESTMENT FIRM to show for it!!!!!
Like with the corrupt piece of human-filth public schools superintendent I tried to get CDV to help me take down last year (I got one of his colleagues on my own, and have set the stage for taking that original scumbag down as well) - it is psychologically and culturally impossible for these degenerate clusterfucks to do anything serious or of lasting substance together.
The future belongs to the young like intellectually courageous anon expressed above....,
Sledge,
Your posts remind me of a patronizing white person with the usual tired soundbites and analysis not much more.. Of course having clowns like CNu validate your nonsense is tragic because now you will feel validated in here..
CD is quite like CNu both are impotent Black intellectuals who have a lot to say bt add nothing of value to the bottom line..
CNu's alleged educational venture was all smoke and mirrors nonsense but given his low self esteem he felt the need to constantly remind this forum of his good deeds..WTF
SMDH...,
Greg Thrasher in his 60's and still a bishes bish....,
Of course there is always the false equivalence arguments introduced by whites and Black apologists like CNu and others whenver raw racial events like this unfold in our nation..
It is surreal how many people rush to seek similar Black crimes and Black decadence whenever the full frontal display of white racism is vomited on the nation..
Perhaps it is some strange display of human nature that operates when shit happens like the execution of Trayvon..People like CNu and to a degree CD insert irrevelant comments about the Black underclass..
What drives this backward sense of noble behavior by Black folks like CNu and CD? this need to level the fucking playing field? Low self esteem? Fear of offending white folks? WTF
CNu,
Why are you so obessed with this poster? As I recall Thrasher unlike you, CD and others never posts under an alias?
What drives you to insert his name into this forum and discourse? I do recall him beasting you in here often but that was last year..
You still sour over that ass kicking? Still licking your wounds?
I can't wait for Thrasher to return to this site in November..Lol,Lol,Lol
Thrasher - ain't nobody else on the whole and entirety of these consolidated worldwide Interwebs corny enough to type back-to-back lols except you, you sorry, basement-dwelling, monkey-ass jiggaboo...,
CNu,
Are you going to post that tired yarn again about your kids as young capitalists making money?...lol,lol,lo
How about another tale of yours saving KC from the plague..lol,lo,lol
How about your bravado tale about you inventing words to label poor Black folks...lol,lol,lol
Come on CNu spin us some stories you broke dick pitiful ass kissin genuflecting negro ..lol,lol,lol
Post some more applause seeking affirmation posts to separate your self from the iggnants of the world..You reverse jiggaboo pussy..lol,lol,lol
Watch out you impotent fuck for I send Thrasher an email and have him start posting about your arse...lol,lol,lol
CNu,
I wish I was like Thrasher who unlike you is not a tired one note theme driven Black apologist..I wish I could post under my real name like he does ..
In any event when in Rome...I can do this like Thrasher
Lol,Lol,LOl
Anonymous 7:29 said...
"Sledge,
Your posts remind me of a patronizing white person with the usual tired soundbites and analysis not much more.. Of course having clowns like CNu validate your nonsense is tragic because now you will feel validated in here.."
Thanks for putting me in my place. Truth is although my personality consists of a varied list of attributes, being patronizing is not one of them.
I'm lucky enough to have reached an age where I don't feel the need to be adored, accepted, liked or respected. It provides a freedom to say exactly what I think and others can feel about what I think as they please.
Your analysis of CNu I would say is off. He has a great deal of common sense gained no doubt through some interesting life experiences. I suspect he has also reached an age where he's little concerned about what others think.
By the way if you think CNu likes white people you are mistaken. I've picked up that just as a general rule, he's less fond of them than he is of the baggy pants people he criticizes.
I agree CD is quite the intellectual. Never underestimate the power of words. They are the only conveyance of ideas that people have. The ideas have to come into being before the building blocks are assembled.
But to your point. You are right. There inevitably comes a time where words of discussion and ideas come to an end and you just have to do the hard work needs to be done.
Sledge
Spare me your hollow sage advice I have little regard for your pedestrian talking points nothing of value todate but just the usual chatter from yet another underdeveloped white person
Btw you are quite wrong about CNu he is a wounded fractured low self esteem person full of self hate for anything Black including his own image of course you affirm him because he validates and makes legitimate your contempt for Black folks such affirmation eases your guilt
Here is the deal CNu and to a degree CD are both reflections of the pathological nature of white racism they have merit because the channel the very essence you think they resent which is whiteness..Both are modern day elites seeking validation from the evil that created them
I don't think this is all an either/or scenario, but is more on the both/and end of the spectrum. Folks can advocate for more black business investment and call for a greater establishment and infusion in merchant caste endeavors. I'd like to see that. At the same time forwarding academic thought and drawing attention to structural inequalities to inform the public, and policy is an avenue worthwhile of pursuit as well. No need to draw a line in the sand and say one path is the highest good and the other is a waste of time. I'd like to see more of both types. They aren't mutually exclusive, or really even polar opposites. Just different ways to advocate for the betterment of the people.
That's all very interesting Anon. You seem to find fault with just about everyone whether black or white.
Since you are able to dissect and describe in your view what Cnu and CD's personality problems are.
Please do us the courtesy of dissecting and describing yourself so that we may come to a fuller and more complete understanding of what blackness should be all about.
I for one am waiting to be educated.
Sledge,
In due time being the underdeveloped thinker that you are I must bring you along slowly, the nature of Blackness which you lack the capacity to understand requires many lessons..
Unlike Cnu I don't seek your approval or validation in fact I may change my mind about educating you I tire of meeeting in person so many dense and underdeveloped whites like you 24/7..
You may just be stuck with the droppings of CNu ..lol,lol,lol
Anon I can't say that wasn't the answer I expected to get back from you.
I had a feeling the opportunity was going to prove a little too challenging for you.
Well, I guess it's my loss. If only those other white people you meet daily hadn't tired you so.
Damn them for being so boring!
Yeah, I'm going to have to do that post on blackonblack racism. Must be a class thing. Behold the black elite.
I think it's best to use the name now, too many Anons.
@Sledge
Although I don't believe in the balkanazation of the country and hope it never happens.
As do I. It would be messy and bloody, but I also wouldn't take it off the table. Sovereignty would be a last resort, but we are our own nation (or close, using Stalin's definition). We should conduct ourselves like one for as long as Black Problems are Black Problems in this increasingly Right-leaning country.
As for the rest of the Black community, if we were to develop a system supportive of entrepreneurship, or a Black School Board, the masses at large would be passive-supportive benefactors for the most part. Most movements in history were arrow-headed by a relatively small group of people.
@Weird Beard
I don't think this is all an either/or scenario, but is more on the both/and end of the spectrum.
It isn't, though I think that one should assist the other. Words should be shaped to drive action, otherwise they're just words.
@D.
Your right, enough flapping of the gums, time to invest in the community. It's time to really do something. I will start up a company called the Black Star Line through the Universal Negro Improvement Association and economic transactions can tap the African global economy. CNu can handle all the farm land and the bomb shelters and guns, and CDV can point out the structural racism when the banks turn us down for loans to start all this up, while you can clown on us all and call out race traitors, and...go
@Weird Beard
Burr, I wasn't the Anon in the "Political" Rap thread.
Henry Belsidus here - I don't handle farm land - but large scale control and monitoring systems on shipping containers - that's a walk in the park.
"I think it's best to use the name now, too many Anons."
Ditto. We who don't use our real names are all Anons. The name just denotes which Anons we are so you can follow our trends of thought. Don't want a name? Use a number.
@Sledge,
I have yet to encounter anything from an underdeveloped white person that was a challenge.
Please threaten me with one I need the excercise.
Spare me also the tired meme of Black on Black crime ..I don't separate out crime based upon this politicial bandwidth.
BTW Mr. Thrasher did post me a link to the issue perhaps you should check it out.
The anons are getting confusing in here of late...I am not going to give me name in here but I will admit I am a member of Mr. Thrasher group
http://www.voxunion.com/the-crime-of-reporting-crime/
@Chauncey: Zimmerman said he didn't know if (Martin) was armed or unarmed. How do you turn that into an assumption that he was armed? While I hadn't thought of it before, the comment above, that Zimmerman's words directly answered Sybrina's questions makes perfect sense.
1) What kind of apology would have been acceptable? (So far, it seems nothing less than public suicide would do for many)
2) Have you seen the twitter posts calling for the death of both Zimmerman and the judge? How do you feel about these? Think your rhetoric is helping or harming?
CNu,
1. Really, people who wear a hoodie deserve shot? I know you don't believe that.
2. It's a tangent, and I'm jumping back a few, but there's nothing like hunting and nuking incompetent managers. Nobody can win that game forever, but it's so fun to watch them melt when the water gets on them.
@parvenu - the way the fla law is written you only have to *feel* threatened. and you can meet force with deadly force if you think that you are in danger of bodily harm.
none of which should be read as me believing zimmerman was/is justified. just that i guarantee a lawyer reviewed that statement for loopholes before he made it.
__
zimmerman's remorse and contrition and remorse might have held some weight if it occurred before he found himself facing 2nd degree murder. back when he thought it'd all "blow over"
I should also admit, if anyone who looked like me had ever been shot by police--let alone some jerkoff looking-for-trouble neighborhood watch weirdo--while wearing X, with X as a possible contributing factor, my dad would have beaten me black and blue for wearing X. My mom would have gone in my closet while I was at school and thrown all my Xs away.
Looks like Zimmerman was being a racist freak clown, but that's no reason to expose your kids to that siht. Is this point of view even controversial??
CNu,
1. Really, people who wear a hoodie deserve shot? I know you don't believe that.
lol,
Tom, surely you know my modus operandi well enough by now to know good and gottdayyum well that I didn't write anything like that.
OTOH - you should also know pretty well what kind of malicious nonsense will be attributed to me by busters who can't win the argument on the merits of their emotional gum-whooping.
If you're gonna dip in to grown folks heated dozens-playing, please make better efforts to catch up with the game already in play. Ummm-kay....,
{in any event, had homeboy been working his flat-front khaki Puritans/and oxford broadcloth George - with a navy blue blazer, then this wouldn't have ever been an issue at all (^; }
Anonymous said...
"@Sledge,
I have yet to encounter anything from an underdeveloped white person that was a challenge.
Please threaten me with one I need the excercise." (exercise)
"threaten" is an interesting choice of words for you to chose. Odd that you should see the exercise you request as a threat.
At any rate, I refer you back to:
sledge said...
Since you are able to dissect and describe in your view what Cnu and CD's personality problems are.
Please do us the courtesy of dissecting and describing yourself so that we may come to a fuller and more complete understanding of what blackness should be all about.
CNu,
Due to my cultural limitations I'm not just bad at the game, I have trouble even figuring out what game is being played.
From my POV you're seeing more like Doctrinal Antiracism at war with Real Life, all going on inside my own head.
sledge said...
"threaten" is an interesting choice of words for you to chose. (choose)
Man, it sucks being an underdeveloped white person. LOL!
I have trouble even figuring out what game is being played.
From where I sit, the argument unfolding amongst the insults has to do with "what is one to do when the central political issue facing the majority of black americans is the bad behavior of a subset of black americans, much as the central political issue facing whites in the run up to the civil war, and the run up to the civil rights act was the bad behavior of a subset of white americans?"
Kunstler had a little bit of it in his peripheral vision when he wrote thus;
I believe the black separatist movement of that time derived largely from anxiety around the issues of cultural assimilation - that is, of black and white America forming a true and complete common culture. In any case, it was at this moment of history that the multicultural movement presented itself as an "out" for white America. Multiculturalism allowed white America to pretend that common culture was not important. It also promoted the unfortunate idea that we could have a functioning civil society with different standards of behavior for different ethnic groups. It has left the nation with the unanswered question of black America's self-evident failure to thrive, and an enormous body of narrative affecting to explain it away as "structural racism."
However, of course he completely missed the fact that black separatism of that era was predicated on fresh and vibrant moral grounds having to do with Jim Crow, racist militarism, and economic exclusion.
Fast forward 40 years, and there's no such set of claims to be made. What promotes separatism today is simple organic failure of education, cultural assimilation and mainstreaming, and none of that is informed by the high moral ground of Martin and Malcolm's era - rather - it is informed and vitiated by unproductive oppositionality and simple bad behavior.
It's a whole buncha folks who want to play make-believe that they live in 1963 Birmingham AL because that makes it much easier for them to account for not knuckling down in school and working like their lives depended on it.
I would've bought into that horseshit hook, line, and sinker had I spent time in India and seen first hand the superhuman lengths to which truly oppressed and impoverished kids and their families are willing to go to get an education that can serve as their lifeline out of that poverty.
When I see by contrast what no_limits_niggas, and their epic fail mamas and absentee daddies squander and take for granted right here, right now, I have next to no sympathy for them...,
meant to say "had I NOT spent time in India"
@Tom
"From my POV you're seeing more like Doctrinal Antiracism at war with Real Life, all going on inside my own head."
That certainly is the way I read it. But then I don't know him as well as you.
BTW: A hoodie is a sweater with a hood. Even middle class white guys wear them. It's not an article of gang clothing. This gangster lifestyle trope CNut is purveying is slander.
Festas, shouldn't you be out in your tire rutted mud yard picking up shitty diapers?
nomad,
Yeah partly I think I'm also pissed at C for going off on you excessively.
Yeah, I understand that (most) white kids can wear hooded sweatshirts safely. But CNu is onto something, though. The sweatshirt has nothing to do with gangs in reality. But in the white mind it has something to do with scary black guys. That's racist, and periodically murderous. No argument.
Still, paraphrasing C, Trayvon Martin would be alive today if he had a buttoned-down collar and trousers with creases in them. Imagine Zimmerman trying to explain that to the cops. "You have the right to remain silent ..."
@nomad
I'd like to understand this because it just kind of blows me away and makes my mind boggled. And here I sit with this questioning look on my face.
I get why you referred to CNu as Cnut. Because you and he have some competition going on.
But how did you skip over the points he made in his post? Some of which contained life lessons which could prove valuable to anyone wanting to achieve more in their life.
He didn't have to offer them up from his own experience or take the time to type them onto this page.
There are some real jewels in his post and it seems as if they were discarded.
I don't understand.
Nah sledge, you don't get it at all. Nomad's politics are as different from mine as chalk is different from cheese.
My perspective in a nutshell, and for the very last time; Young master "no_limits_nigga" terminally discovered his limit at the wrong end of a gun.
Blacker than thou jiggaboos - who have made it their lives' work to justify and excuse any extent of bad behavior by reference to structural racism - are stuck with the intractable paradox of most mainstream black folks hating no_limits_niggas too...,
What is one to do when the central political issue facing the majority of black americans is the bad behavior of a subset of black americans, much as the central political issue facing whites in the run up to the civil war, and the run up to the civil rights act was the bad behavior of a subset of white americans?
Festas is more closely identified with the no_limits, bad behaving element than he is with a parent trained and self-made black man such as myself.
I don't know him from a hole in the wall, so when we get right down to it, he doesn't mean a dayyum thing to me, phukkem....,
@sledge,
There is nothing cutting edge or informative about CNu's impotent and tired rant, your cheerleader posturing for CNu's obsolete analysis agains affirms for me how underdeveloped you really are..
Stop sucking on Cnu's jock strap and understand he is an inflated chatter class puff of nothing..He reels in whites like yourself who worship Black apologists like Cnu..
Cnu is a regressive thinker he quotes irrevelant radicals( Kunstler) and vomits margainal obsolete talking points like separatism!
CNu is full of self hate( I do understand how the pathological nature of white supremacy has and continues to wound Black folks) he never promotes the genius of Black people he is always in a negative critical posture with anything Black in America ..He cultivates whites like you who have no foundation on Black issues to check his dumb ass of course I do not have your cultural shortcomings..I can slice and dice his bullshit with both of my hands tied and eyes closed...
Mainstream Black Americans( CNu verbiage) do not hate the Black underclass with the same venom and contempt CNu's expresses..Mainstream Black Americans understand the evolution of Black folks and the continued existence and even expansion of the Black underclass of course unlike CNu they don't indict and demonize them with his type of venom..
BTW please run a spell check on this post as it appears that is your best retorts to my comments is to find fault with my form..Go for it I expected as much from a underdeveloped thinker who cannot measure up...
@ Anon....
Ah yeah. So whatever happened to
"I have yet to encounter anything from an underdeveloped white person that was a challenge. Please threaten me with one I need the excercise."
By my count that's twice you've ran from that one. It is much easier to level attacks and venomous insults at others than to examine your own short comings.
Calling me an underdeveloped white and CNu an inflated chatter class puff of nothing does NOTHING to deflect the fact that you continue to avoid the self examination required to answer the question you yourself requested.
So do you always take the easier route or is it just for this topic?
Regardless, I'm loosing interest. You can only fall back on underdeveloped white person a couple of times before you start to sound like a parrot who only knows one slogan.
@sledge,
I tired many posts ago with your simple tease to get me to address your self examination question..
White folks continue to amaze even while they retreat they still have the stench of white privledge... Sorry but I am not required to address your question which is designed to deflect your underdevelopment ...The issue is your shortcomings in here not mine
Recall you are an underdeveloped white male not worthy of my need to validate your questions..You don't measure up and You don't matter so why would I entertain your question.
Now run along and wait for CNu to validate again...You are a one note underdeveloped white male so you deserve a one note samba on a loop
I confess, sledge. I stopped taking CNut seriously a few responses ago. So I probably missed some o his words of wisdom. Oh well.
@Tom
"Trayvon Martin would be alive today if he had a buttoned-down collar and trousers with creases in them."
I don't know if that is true. Zim might have thought it suspiciously overdressed. At any rate he certainly would have been alive if Zim had obeyed police. Or if Zim wasn't so obsessive about (afraid of)young blacks in the first place.
Nomad, I can see that.
Zim appears to be a violent racist. I don't mean to dodge that.
Negrophobia occurs regardless of what types of clothing Black males wear..It happens in classrooms and boardrooms..
Negrophobia being a derivative of white supremacy has like white racism a long shelflife and it continues to live in various venues and incarnations..
@Tom: Just curious. Why do you think Zimmerman is a violent racist?
While he does have some violence in his past, I'm having a bit of trouble with the racist charge.
Would you be referring to his mentoring of young blacks, at his own expense?
Would you be referring to the beating of black Sherman Ware by the son of a white cop, in which Zimmerman created and posted fliers, went to churches, got a City Council meeting together, and organized the community to protest the cover-up, for which by rights he should be a hero to the black community?
If there's something else that is not opinion (or dishonestly edited tape), I really want to see it. (I've been looking for weeks, and have yet to find it).
Thanks for the enlightenment.
ColorBind,
My opinion is based on reading a complete unedited transcript of the 911 tape. I recommend you do the same.
Perhaps you read something I haven't.
Kindly provide a link to the transcript you are citing. (This is not laziness, I want to make sure we are both looking at the same thing.)
Thank you.
@ Colorbind
"Would you be referring to his mentoring of young blacks, at his own expense?
Would you be referring to the beating of black Sherman Ware by the son of a white cop, in which Zimmerman created and posted fliers, went to churches, got a City Council meeting together, and organized the community to protest the cover-up, for which by rights he should be a hero to the black community?"
Even if this is true, it's no license to kill. We in the black community are not that hard up for heroes.
@CD
I've joked about being a robot, but it's irksome to have to enter a code every time I want to post a comment. So I'll see you guys later. But you probably won't see me.
@Nomad.
That is a new feature on Blogger. I didn't realize it and have disabled the no robot person check.
ColorBind,
The original transcript I saw contained a plain racial slur, not "black" but "f---ing c---s." That transcript seems impossible to find now, and that slur (or maybe not) has apparently brewed up into yet another sub-controversy. Sounds like nobody's believing each other's transcripts on that point anymore.
Here's a video where they play the offending (or maybe not) few words ten times over. (Starting around 1:40; until then it's just Anderson Cooper blathering.) See what it sounds like to you.
Link:
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/22/did-trayvon-martins-shooter-use-slur-in-911-tapes/
@Nomad: Nobody should have a license to kill. The point was that Zimmerman was being called a racist. I have yet to see anything that legitimately backs this claim.
@Tom: CNN updated that video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOt1wEDy0SI
Now the concurrence is that he said "F-ing COLD" which matches the weather that night. Also, the official Arrest Affidavit says "f-ing punks".
I'm still waiting for any evidence of racism by George Zimmerman.
ColorBind,
No need to wait. The transcript I read and the apparent fact that Zimmerman killed a black kid were what I based my opinion on. It's a legal case, and I hope as more facts come to light the truth will become clearer. Whatever it is.
I'm going to buy out of the "concurrence" that you say is taking place on Zimmerman's semi-audible words, and instead encourage people to visit the links we've posted and form their own opinions.
CNu,
Sorry about my earlier comment on hoodies/deserving to get shot. You're right, of course nothing you said means anything of the kind and I knew better.
@Tom: I agree that each person should analyze all of the evidence. Zimmerman did kill a black "kid", who was inches taller than he was. And I think the reason this has been blown up so much is due to the fact that only one of them was black. If they had both been black, or neither of them, this "unspeakable crime" would have likely been ignored.
BTW: Have you heard of Daniel Adkins, a mentally challenged (capacity of a 12 year old) white man in Arizona who was shot by a black male? Adkins came around a corner at a drive through, was nearly hit by the unnamed black man, and a verbal exchange took place. Initially, the black man charged Adkins hit his car with a pipe, but the only thing Adkins had was a dog leash, as he was walking his dog, and likely protective of the dog in the face of nearly being hit by a car.
Adkins is dead. The black man, still unnamed and free, has not been charged. He claimed "Stand Your Ground" after shooting a mentally challenged man walking his dog, when he could have rolled up his window and left. Where's the outrage?
I don't know where the outrage is, ColorBind. If the Adkins case happened the way you say, then I'm outraged about that one too.
Maybe "Stand/Ground" is a bad idea. Maybe too many unstable clowns think they're living in a movie and are running around with loaded guns. I don't know.
Color. I have been watching this we great fascination. There is some real bad faith at the root of some of your arguments and those who want to cry boo hoo and "where is the outrage" when white people are done wrong. Do you really want to suggest that in this society white people are victimized in mass and that their lives are less valuable relative to those of blacks?
Is there one iota of evidence, serious sociological data, that could even support such a claim? Or do you just rest upon it as a given assumption?
Zimmerman did kill a black "kid".- Colorbind
If Trayvon isn't a child, then what is he?
@Chauncey: You can suggest all you want. You can fabricate things that I neither said nor believe. I merely made a point that another "stand your ground" defense, apparently without evidentiary justification, has not been big news.
You can throw out all the bait you can dangle, it doesn't change what I've written. Since you've been watching with such fascination, perhaps you can actually cite some of my "real bad faith". I'm sincerely betting you can't, and I'll be watching for your honest, objective, factual response with great fascination.
@Anonymous: No, Trayvon isn't a child. I put "kid" in quotes because the definition of "kid" can vary greatly, although I don't believe it would include a 6'3" football player who goes by "no-limit-nigga", and evidently assaulted a man looking out for the neighborhood, as instructed by posted signs. IMHO.
Color. You are skilled in deflecting. If you cannot see how an obsession with white people who are victims of criminal blacks as a way of saying "see they do it to" and crying about "tragedy" is a distraction and a canard from the real issue I cannot help you. To me, that is bad faith. Perhaps, you have a different explanation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZvIyIyhhA4
Racist Black Pastor says Trayvon Martin got what he deserved
Chauncey, we should become activists for people of abnormal height. Gigantasophobia is a societal disease that must be analyzed and deconstructed. I propose we should study Whiteness in tandem with Shortness. This irrational fear and criminalization of "Giant Negroes" is most disturbing.
@uncey: You have demonstrated only your own defective deflection, not mine. I have no such obsession that you have fantasized about. I would be making the same comments about Trayvon were the roles reversed. I never said "They do it, too." I merely pointed out a reverse crime that did NOT get the hype. You do not participate in this exchange in good faith. Clearly, when it comes to color, reality is a pigment of your imagination. You should be capable of so much better.
@D If your comment is directed to me, I will clarify. I do not promote any irrational fears based on size, color, or brand of socks. My comment about Trayvon's height was in answer to somebody questioning why I put "kid" in quotes. Thanks.
@Color
Ah, but you do promote the denial of childhood/adolescence to tall people, even though we know that Trayvon is a minor by law, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
I suppose the opposite is true for you as well; is Peter Dinklage is a perpetual child?
Tell me, at precisely what height does one's age advance a year or two?
Martin was seventeen years old.
Colorbind has gone to the mats with a half-dozen WARN racism-chasers. The only thing I've read in response to the carefully and rationally argued presentation he's made thus far, is a lot of emotional tit-for-tat and broad brush allegations of bad faith on his part.
If that's the best the WARN peanut gallery can muster at a 10-1 argument vs. counterargument ratio, then it's plainly time for folks to admit that either they're just plain wrong, or, that colorblind has simply outclassed a bunch of incompetent, inattentive, and sloppy debate opponents.
Neither admission is a good look.
Both admissions amount to a clear indictment of the really loosey goosey and trifling game that professional racism-chasing has become in 2012...,
CDV - your performance wrt and in response to Colorbind has been particularly disgraceful and disappointing.
You can be a cordial and infinitely patient host to a flagrant, infantile, and utterly mendacious asshat like Greg Thrasher, but you're a rude, petulant, and incompetent correspondent to Colorbind?
That speaks volumes about how far under your remarkably thin skin Colorbind has gotten by persistence and attention to detail.
You GOTS to step up your respectable game brah....,
Eh, I'm half joking myself. Colorbind doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but I've always been curious at the rational of other people.
I've already said my piece on Trayvon, I don't feel like repeating myself.
"CDV - your performance wrt and in response to Colorbind has been particularly disgraceful and disappointing."
Look who's talkin.
lol, like Thrasher, you've shown your natural monkey ass and can be dismissed off-hand as wholly devoid of value.
Now, grown folks talking here - so this is decidedly not for you - umm-kay....,
For CDV and the serious professional racism-chasers, (not emotional negroe buffoons) Colorbind's measured and methodical performance on these discussion threads is a nice foreshadowing of what the Zimmerman defense is going to do in court, and the results that can be expected to be obtained under the law.
If you clowns are simply incapable of doing any better than this, then you might as well begin sharpening your pitch forks and tarring up your torches to show out in the streets - because you're NOT going to prevail as a matter of logic, language, and law - no matter how much emotional whining and prevaricating you attempt to do.
@ CNut
Tsk,tsk. If not for your skin color I'd call these comments racist.Of course, you could be a white guy (or girl) masquerading as black.
"Honey, I don't know what you are. For all I know you could be some big fat dude sitting in a stem chair with his dick hanging out." - Agent Tom Greer, Surrogates
"You don’t have to try at all to be a racist. It’s a little coiled clot of venom lurking there in all of us, white and black, goy and Jew, ready to strike out when we feel embattled, belittled, brutalized. Which is why it has to be monitored, made taboo and restrained, by society and the individual…."
http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2012/04/25/470713/lester-bangs-hipster-racism/?mobile=nc
@D No, you deny what I said. Please don't fabricate words for me. (CDV does plenty of that). And, no, I don't matter in the grand scheme of things, but isn't it nice to have somebody who doesn't automatically fall in line with the "White bad, black good" tunnel vision?
Trayvon WAS a minor, that's true. I put "kid" in quotes because that can create a false impression, along with outdated (and falsely edited) images of both of them. "Teen" would be a much more proper description, do you disagree? I have no fictional height limits, that's your creation. BTW, you might also take a look at Chauncey's more recent article on a 35 year old bus driver being knocked down and pummeled -- by a BOY who is either 7 or 8 years old.
Note: here the term "boy" fits.
FWIW, there are "boys" who have been charged as adults in crimes, and Mr. Adkins, who I referred to above, although in his twenties, has the mental capabilities of a twelve year old. Age doesn't matter, capacity and intent do.
@Nomad Why does it matter the race of the person in making a determination of racism?
CNU: I greatly appreciate the support and kind words. I'd warn you against future charges of racism, but it looks like that galley has already sailed.
No, Trayvon isn't a child. I put "kid" in quotes because the definition of "kid" can vary greatly, although I don't believe it would include a 6'3" football player who goes by "no-limit-nigga". - Colorbind
As mentioned a child is anyone under the age of 18. Likewise a midget who's 19 yrs old is still considered an adult.
"and evidently assaulted a man looking out for the neighborhood, as instructed by posted signs. IMHO.colorbind" Colorbind
This has been asked repeatedly of you. Why are you SO certain Zimmerman is telling the truth when he gives his account of the incident?
Tsk,tsk. If not for your skin color I'd call these comments racist.
rotflmbao...,
jiggaboo, if your teeth were yellow as butter, your breath smelled like cancerous ass, and I handed you a toothbrush, some toothpaste and some mouthwash, you'd call me a racist.
that's why it's been an easy pleasure to dismiss you as wholly devoid of value. now run along and collect that batch of shitty diapers "your people" threw into your yard last night - and leave the grown folks discussion to grown folks...,
@Cnu. You are right, he does annoy me. I can deal with honest racists; he is a polite racism denier who won't own his priors. And also is blindly and willfully ignorant of how disingenuous his claims are.
You are smart and devious enough to pick up on his little ol me well-intentioned victim and fair play guise. Please do not buy into it.
This is akin to an evolutionary biologist debating someone who believes in creationism. There are no shared priors. With Colordenial being the latter.
You are right his defense of the valiant George Zimmerman, omniscience over events of that day, selective processing of information, willingness to take that mouth-breather's words as honest and from on high (when Zimmerman has contradicted himself many times and the detectives said he was lying), and desperate searching for cases of white victimization as a nullifier for white racism, is a great preview of what will likely happen in court. That does not mean that it will allow justice to be done. You are also correct in that Colorblinded's narrative is the present/future of white reactionary racism in this country where to be called "racist" is an equal affront as being called "nigger."
Bizarre. Dealing with Colorbind is like punching water or when Bobby Hill on the King of the Hill cartoon was sent to military school and his grandpa could do nothing to change him.
That is why I let other people deal with him. Too exhausting. I think Thrasher is a sincere guy who has been transparent and direct. I may often disagree with him, but I value his transparency.
@CNut
LOL. Ain't it ironic that the guy who runs around shouting "jiggaboo" sounds more like a jiggaboo than the people he's condemning.
@ Colorbind
"Why does it matter the race of the person in making a determination of racism?"
I dunno. Couldn't have anything to do with the fact that "race" is the root word.
@Anonymous, although you continue to miss my point, the definitions I find for "child" say between birth and puberty, and the legal definition says UNDER 14 YEARS OF AGE. So go argue with somebody else. I'm not absolutely certain of anything. I said EVIDENTLY -- that means based on the evidence to date. What are you basing your "knowledge" on?
@Chauncey: OK, I'll sink to your level (just this once). I call BULLSHIT on all of your garbage.
1) I am completely honest, and you can show nothing otherwise.
2) I am completely non-racist, and you can show nothing otherwise.
3) You are either an outright LIAR or you make stuff up and claim to know the truth. (See my comments on your latest white criminal)
If you have an honest answer, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, be a man and admit you're wrong.
"I am completely non-racist"
Ahhh. The force is strong in this one.
Yeah. "I am completely non-racist"
... Oh, ColorBind. Really?
@Nomad:
My earlier question was in response to your writing "If not for your skin color I'd call these comments racist." I still maintain that based on your words, it's a fair question, and I'd still like a fair answer.
As to your "strong force", kindly demonstrate any racist actions on my part. Thanks for playing.
@Chauncey: Way back to the original point of your article: Are you aware that Zimmerman requested a private meeting with Martin's parents, and they said no?
@Tom Unless you have evidence to the contrary, what's your point?
@ Colorbind
"My earlier question was in response to your writing "If not for your skin color I'd call these comments racist." I still maintain that based on your words, it's a fair question, and I'd still like a fair answer."
That was a fair answer. Here's another:
A racist is a racist, regardless of the color of his skin.
“I said EVIDENTLY -- that means based on the evidence to date. What are you basing your "knowledge" on?”- Colorbind
Yes (Zimmerman) own account of events is “evidence”- too bad a dead person can’t talk.
Anonymous, although you continue to miss my point, the definitions I find for "child" say between birth and puberty, and the legal definition says UNDER 14 YEARS OF AGE.- colorbind
I’m guessing you went to http://dictionary.law.com/ to get that definition? In fact, different legal dictionaries define child differently. In the law, an infant/ child/ minor is still defined as anyone under the age of 18.
My point being that Trayvon was legally a child/ minor/ infant at the time of his death.
Tying it back to your orginal comment- I take no issue with your statement “Age doesn't matter, capacity and intent do.” Intent being key here. That is, is if I were to believe Zimmerman is telling the truth about Trayvon’s actions.
Conservative media spin- make a black child out to be an adult by supporting Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon initiated contact with him.
Let me continue, the hard evidence to this date doesn't tell us anything conclusively.
What I do know for a fact, is that Trayvon was child- that I wish people would stop denying.
Colorbind:
I am completely non-racist, and you can show nothing otherwise.
- Colorbind
A genuine question for you Colorbind. Do have postings on other websites defending Trayvon from people who smear his name as much as you defend people who smear Zimmerman. If so can you link them please?
ColorBind,
"I'm not a racist" is just one of those statements ... like "Some of my best friends are Jewish," etc.
It's not some kind of awful accusation. I'm racist myself. My 2 cents, Just stick with whatever you want to argue about and don't even go down that road.
I had a dream....,
CDV - "your people" are transparently wrong on an inexcusable number of levels.
It's one thing to be stuck on stupid and in need of mentorship when you're 17, it's a whole other ballgame to be fully grown and infantile.
As for Colorbind, he's taken all-comers at WARN and easily and persuasively overmatched one and all.
This is akin to an evolutionary biologist debating someone who believes in creationism. There are no shared priors. With Colordenial being the latter.
yeah...,ok - I heard this business of "priors" from you a fair number of times at Cobb's too.
Whilst at Cobb's, we've each witnessed scholars get called out, quintuple teamed, and nevertheless hold it down with unparalleled excellence and no such excuse-making.
I'm sorry brah, but Colorbind has walked into WARN and calmly and methodically taken no prisoners.
Not a good look.
3) You are either an outright LIAR or you make stuff up and claim to know the truth. (See my comments on your latest white criminal)
If you have an honest answer, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, be a man and admit you're wrong.
rotflmbao...,
Don't hold your breath CB. The blanket claim of deficient "priors" disqualifies you from getting the match your arguments deserve.
CDV ran to JStor - truth be known don't want no more - brokeback Cena - his ass is sore...,
3) You are either an outright LIAR or you make stuff up and claim to know the truth. (See my comments on your latest white criminal
ROTFLMBAO....
The post was a parody. Chauncey lied and that was the point. It's a shame you didn't get it..
@Nomad: "A racist is a racist, regardless of the color of his skin."
I agree. But then why did you say:
"If not for your skin color I'd call these comments racist."????
@Anonymous: I don't care about spin, conservative, liberal, or loony. I care about the evidence (and some of Zimmerman's statements are supported by evidence). I agree Trayvon was a minor, but child or infant is stretching it IMHO.
@Anonymous/Anonymous: It's a fair question. While I don't have the link (it was weeks ago) I did note that some pictures of Trayvon were fake, and that people claiming he was 6'3" and 170 were not in agreement with police reports. I have also praised the decorum of his mother, and repeatedly stated that if the roles were reversed, I would be asking for the same fair treatment of Martin. Please don't blame me for not countering unfair attacks that I have not seen.
@Tom: The reason I went down that road is because Chauncey refuses to lay off the charges that I am racist. Occasionally, even he needs to hear the truth, even if he refuses to speak it. (See his nearby article with the headline stating as fact "White Children Severely Beat Bus Driver and Elderly Aide. That is a LIE).
@Anonymous: The post was a parody? Should we disbelieve every headline here? The words were pretty clear.
You're right. Chauncey lied.
That's my point. I get it.
It's a shame you didn't.
No Colorbind you don't get it.
Chauncey purposely lied to illustrate a point (a point you still cannot understand).
Acknowledge it and move on...
@Anonymous: I am all for moving on. And I acknowledge that both the headline and the charges in the article are blatantly dishonest. I don't consider it a joke to blame a race (EITHER RACE) for crimes they did not commit.
One would think that Chauncey, of all people, would be careful in this area.
I don't consider it a joke to blame a race (EITHER RACE) for crimes they did not commit."- Colorbind
Glad to hear that. So can you direct me to any of your postings on other websites defending Trayvon from people who smear his name with as much vigor as you defend those who smear Zimmerman?
Now now, Anon. CNut said Colorbind is right. Therefore it must be true.
@ C-bind
*
"A racist is a racist, regardless of the color of his skin."
I agree. But then why did you say:
"If not for your skin color I'd call these comments racist."????*
I was being ironic. Black folks is allowed to do that you know.
@Anonymous: I will try again and see if this gets through. For some reason, Chauncey has refused to post my last three comments.
Is he afraid of something?
PS: If Chauncey has any guts, you might see this.
Nah CB - CDV doesn't moderate - break your comments up into smaller pieces and prefix them with "continued" up top.
Black folks is allowed to do that you know.
lol,
uh oh!!!
Logic, language and values having failed, it was only a matter of time before clowning, rhyming, and posing got underway in earnest...,
Colorblind has yet to offer up and substantive talking points in his defense of Zimmerman..
All I have observed is speculation and more speculation..
CNu's girlie hook up with Colorblind is par for course for him he loves those who like him have contempt for Black folks..He really gets off if the person is white who agrees with him ( this is part of his inferiority complex)
Mr. Thrasher nailed CNu's issues months ago at our next group meeting I am going to tell him CNu still is obesssing over him...
I must admit. Mr. Thrasher nu what he was talkin bout.
@Nomad: Apparently I don't know "the rules" here, nor that there might be different rules for different races. Please educate me:
1) "A racist is a racist, regardless of the color of his skin."
2) "If not for your skin color I'd call these comments racist."
Just how does a person determine which is irony and which is sincere?
I seem to be missing the secret decoder ring on this one. Thanks.
Nomad,
I disagree I don't much substance in his comments on this issue..
@Colorbind
"I seem to be missing the secret decoder ring on this one."
LOL. It's a black thing. We don't just hand those out to anyone.
@Nomad: Who decided I didn't deserve a decoder ring?
This thread certainly took a strange turn. A couple of days ago I stepped across the street to talk to my OG neighbor and couple of his friends. I noticed that his half-white step sons don't sag and boom their music like they used to do when they moved into the neighborhood. The hood has become less gangsta lately. I'd like to think my presence had something to do with that. I don't desert my people. I lead by example.
Thrasher is garbage taken to the curb months ago. Healthy people take out their trash, quick, fast, and in a hurry.
(what kind of neurotic cripple brings trash back in to litter, stink up, and infect the house?)
What else ought one do in a collapsing political economy when the central issue facing the majority of black Americans is the bad behavior of a subset of blacks?
What happened when the central political issue facing America in the run up to the civil war was the unacceptable behavior of a subset of whites?
What happened when the central issue facing America in the run up to the civil rights act was the bad behavior of a subset of whites?
What very obviously must happen now?
@Cnu
Reformation and reorganization of Black America, I'd say.
D. - what cultural insertion points would you select for instigating reformatory processes?
Church?
Schools?
Art?
Brick and Mortar Social Networks?
Political?
Crime?
Media?
Dietary?
Business?
Technological?
Other?
Why?
Social Networks are necessary to make anything possible. TBH, I think a bit of secrecy is in order. Too much attention has spelled doom for too many Black organizations to count. Hell, some were practically begging for attention.
Schools would be the highest priority. Without a quality education, there is no hope. Improvements from Elementary to High school. There are schools that successfully create college-bound students from disadvantaged homes, we only need to apply their tactics to all our schools. Our schools should be the envy of the world.
Dietary is a close second. Aside from the health benefits of a reformed diet, urban agriculture would open a new market that almost anyone could take part in. It may also break the monopoly of industrial farms, and weaken their hold on the government.
Business means employment, production of goods & services, and the exchange of money and labor within the community. Personally, I think strong businesses alone would greatly reduce crime by offering opportunities as both employers and employees.
Technological advances require reformation in schools and businesses first. We should pioneer in technologies that other Americans won't look at, like renewable energy. (Also useful for producing weapons. Just in case.)
Crime usually revolves around the drug trade. While most of it would be reduced by the influx of opportunities, we should take a proactive stance against it since too many of us are killed out of foolishness.
Media & Art are becoming one in the same these days. I don't consider them essential to our survival, but we do need Black studios in art and entertainment that portrays us in a respectable and dignified manner.
I think we emphasize Politics too much as it is. It's important, but it's not the only way to impact communities. Besides, this is a plutocratic democracy; we won't dominate politics for a looooong time.
The Black Church has become parasitic lately, hasn't it? I imagine it's also encouraged a passive "only God can save me" mental. The Church is a great mobilizer, when put to the task.
I often wonder what would happen if the black church reintroduced the original, authentic sacraments
As for social networks, my respect for so-called greek letter organizations has never been particularly high - but after having performed some technical services for the Boule a few years ago, and become very well acquainted with some of their muckitty mucks, my disdain for these ass-clowns is unparalleled.
To describe them as close-knit slave catchers doesn't even scratch the surface of their perfidy in theommunity.
Pretty much the same goes for the Masons, Eastern Star and other such "lodges".
I think that minds and diets are the only truly universal common denominators that can be reliably influenced to produce predictable outcomes. Healthy, tasty, inexpensive fresh vegetarian fast food (seasoned southern and southeast asian style for maximum flavor) could go a long way to driving revenue, providing employment, changing minds, lifestyles, etc..., particularly if much of the produce was grown, harvested and prepared locally.
My man Ed Dunn in ATL does yoeman's work providing news, information and how-to's on the low cost, high-yield hustle front.
http://www.dreamandhustle.com/breaking-down-the-jobs-act-for-brothas-and-sistas-to-understand-what-just-happened/
http://www.dreamandhustle.com/why-these-phony-black-leaders-didn%e2%80%99t-support-or-talking-about-the-jobs-act/
Yeah, those kinds of social networks can die a slow, painful death.
I was thinking more along the lines of a grassroots organization, or a unification of the organizations we already have on the ground.
yeah.., um, uh, well - the primary (and I believe insurmountable barrier) - to unifying those organizations would be collapsing their tops.
the heads of all the various and sundry organizations are profoundly invested in their chief administrative incumbency. Think about the now deceased but formerly 5000 year old Dorothy Height, 3800 year old Julian Bond, 4350 year old Louis Farrakhan etc, etc, etc..., the existing brick and mortar organizations CATEGORICALLY DO NOT circulate their leadership and bring young folks into the decision-making, profit-taking, and leadership roles.
Kind of tribal, parochial, and proprietary - with all the waste, fraud, abuse and backwardness that that entails.
This is of course not only true of black folks, it just so happens to be acutely and pathologically true of black folks.
A mainstream example of a common organizational framework that could easily be collapsed, streamlined, and massive amounts of money saved is public school districts. There's no need to pay for redundant Superintendents, directors, central office staffs, and operational services. But getting these redundant organizations line up and changed according to any such broad outline would be tantamount to herdiung cats.
True. The egos and deep-rootedness of those "leaders" make them hard to move. They're tantamount to dictatorships. If they must be replaced and overtaken, how would we ensure that never happens again? Would we need a constitution to limit administrative power? Our own judges?
Have you ever witnessed how excited and happy some older negroes are about their command of Roberts Rules of Order? Scary...,
But in the age of open source technology and the slashdotted forum, there's no need for medieval parliamentary governance systems.
It's now possible and incredibly inexpensive to have near real time referenda on just about any subject, and, to vest organizational influence and authority in those subject matter experts who are genuinely competent and can consistently demonstrate their subject matter grasp.
Good governance and aggressive succession standards which ensure the development of younger servant leaders are easy enough to stipulate in an organization's charter, and, easy enough to enforce with transparency and visibility into how the organization operates.
The model of what NOT to do is the NAACP.
@CNu As a vegetarian for 23 years, I'd be interested in your ideas on how to successfully let people know that they would be better off without all the junk food.
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